View Full Version : State of the Union Nov. 07

11-08-2007, 03:27 PM
(Sorry this is a bit late, and I'll try to give the abridged version for those who don't enjoy my walls of text. I ask you to read the whole thing, there is a lot.)

Well, the one year anniversary has come and gone. To say Brotherhood week was a resounding success would be a lie. It did provide a much needed break, and we came from it proving it wouldn't break up the progression rate of the guild... but it also proved that we lack some of the community i've been preaching about for so long.

Year two of the Brotherhood starts. Patch 2.3 is incoming and Wrath of the Lich King is definatly within sight. Which leads the question, what is the direction of the guild? That's when the officers group up and hole up in their little officer forums and try to represent the guild as a whole.

Trust me, if you want it to be public, it shouldn't be. The chaos that already ensues with differing opinions I couldn't even begin to imagine if we opened that up for public discussion. But I've always been one to present things to the mass rationally, and that's what I'm going to do in this thread. I've always said everyone has a voice in this guild... although things don't always swing your way and we tell things as it is, if you present things calmly and rationally we're always willing to listen.

For the longest time, Mercator and I have fought for the little guy in the guild. Made this guild a land of opprotunity. Tried to put everyone on a level playing field, cause in the end, fun is more important than loot. We still stand by that statement. But, we've also turned a corner in the guild's progression. Come to a point in progression where we need everyone to exhibit a certain level of skill, have a certain level of gear, and when asked to attend come at 100%.

We're the biggest guild on the server, and when we struggle to field raids, that definatly signals to me that we need a change... so with these changes I ask you to be open minded when reading them as they do affect the casual raiders. In the end, this is not to promote the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, which it can be viewed as. It's to promote a certain quality of raiding and raiders.

A.) PVP and it's Relationship to the Brotherhood
B.) Brotherhood, taking a more Hardcore Route
1.) The New Schedule
2.) Roster Marginalization
3.) Raid Conduct and Accountability
4.) New Loot Rules and DKP Possibilities
5.) Zul'Aman and Progression
C.) Conclusions

A.) PVP and it's Relationship to the Brotherhood

The Brotherhood has always been considered a "zerg" pvp guild. Mainly because we're PVE spec'd or generally unknowledegable about PVP mechanics. We win battles by overpowering our opponents with numbers. I'm fine with that, if people actually respond to world PVP situations. There are horde guilds who love us and horde guilds who hate us. When a fellow Bhood member calls out that hes getting camped, I'm not asking you to drop what your doing if it's extremly important, but if you're not close to starting something or doing nothing at all. I expect people to respond. And respond at 100%. Don't charge mindlessly into the fray and just become another corpse. Use your brains, group up, get on vent, and take out the opponent no matter how good he may be.

PVP situations generate good decision making skills and good communication skills. The majority of players don't respond like NPCs, they can't be tanked, they're figuring out the situation too. You need to be able to communicate. I'd take a PVP healer in any PVE environment, cause usually, they're some of the best healers I meet.

We also want to schedule more organized PVP. Whether it be world PVP or battlegrounds and arenas, we expect people to show up with their game faces. PVP requires as much if not more focus than PVE. You don't always need to be a PVP spec, but it certainly helps. What we're asking for is, you listen and work as a team in these battlegrounds. Cause so many times I've queued up with Brotherhood members with their own agendas in these battlegrounds and they couldn't pull their own weight.

We will also be selective, especially if its an officer run raid. We give priority to class balance and then we look at who will enable us to win in these battlegrounds. Loosing is hardly ever fun. And it can open up to tarnish our guild name. I'm not expecting us to win every game, this is after all just a game, but I expect us to give and get 150%. So if a group starts up, fills up, and you weren't chosen. Queue up on your own, wait for the call, and then when it comes, prove your PVP skills.

PVP will take place mainly on the weekends and after raids. If we have healers that only show up for one or the other, then we recruit more healers who can either fill in the gaps or possibly do both. I'm not forcing anyone to do something they don't want, but it certainly reflects better on you to experience the wholeness of this game, and PVP is certainly a very competitive part of the game.

B.) Brotherhood, taking a more Hardcore Route

1.) The New Schedule

We've agreed that perhaps 5 days is a bit much for this guild. Not because it burns people out but more so, we don't have the base to do it. Usually we get 3 good days, and then 2 very shitty days of raiding. And the thing is, the two shitty days actually probably do more against us than for us. 3 hours wiping on Voidreaver trash it almost doesn't matter if we down the boss or not, that's what burns people out. Here's what has burnt me out. Going into an instance and not getting 100% out of everyone. I understand things come up, people are busy, less skilled or less geared people sub in. But it pisses me off when them or the regular raiders completly write the raid off expecting others to carry them. I'll continue more with the consequences of this later.

So right now our raiding days will consist of Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. That means: we are doing 25 mans starting the reset on Tuesday, doing the farmable content between Tue/Wed and then the progression most likely comes between Wednesday evening and steiffles into Sun/Mon. We will ask that our raiders show up as much as possible, we're not asking for all 4 days, but 2 or 3 doesn't seem completly unreasonable.

Thursday will probably be our Zul'Aman/Karazhan day. Attend if you wish, plug in those gear gaps you have. Or Thursday might be turned into an extended PVP night if you wish.

Friday and Saturdays will be up for grabs as well. I encourage people to run the 10-mans, and PVP as much as their hearts desire. I will be drinking my colon out these evenings, as I'm sure some others of you will as well.

2.) Roster Marginalization

We indeed plan on cutting our roster down. To how low? That's to be decided. I won't begin to pretend that the Inner Council doesn't receive it's perks. We founded the guild, so if you're a tight tight friend with us.. you'll probably get to stay.

Beyond that, what we expect from a Brotherhood member. Well, we expect you to bring something to the table. SOMETHING. There are definatly members of the guild who I've never heard of, don't PVP, don't PVE, don't crack me up in guild chat.

We are searching for the all around member, the guy who isn't afraid of wiping, gives the guild 100% loyalty, is good at PVP and helps us progress in PVE. I won't lie, these guys are few and far between in The Brotherhood. And if we have to we'll make this an exclusive guild.

We haven't taken that steps yet, but this will be the first of many roster cuts. We're giving people their chances, and if you're ever wondering where you stand in the Brotherhood roster, ask an officer. Hopefully they can give you a good report on how your standing.

Obviously there are exceptions. And I'll give good examples, and they do bring a lot to their pie slice of the Brotherhood.

A good example is Radky. Full PVP'er. Has solidified his roll in The Brotherhood, owning horde giving us a good name, and he's a fucking fun guy. And even when we ask Radky to goto a raid, he doesn't bitch. He comes, gives 100%, and generally helps us progress, is happy to see the bosses, and expects nothing in return. Fuck yeah, go Radky. That's Brotherhood.

I'll give an example of someone whos impressed me lately. That's Purestevil. Reads up on fights, sitouts when we asks, when he gets the call gives 100%. He's new to instancing, makes mistakes, and then takes responsibility for it. And then will be on all night talking it up in guild chat. That gets you a spot.

Karrde is not a PVE'er, but he shows up night in and night out prepared. Has always tried to spear head our progression, and even though he's not a terrific PVP'er, he will queue up with us and is willing to learn the ropes. That's Brotherhood.

So, I know there are 50 or so people I left out here. But, the roster will experience cuts of people who haven't been providing anything to the guild. Feel free to reapply, feel free to appeal, feel free to ask for help to find another guild if you don't agree with your friend being cut. We're offering all that. We just need to cut some of the dead weight. Friends helping friends are fine, but if you're not using guild chat, not doing anything, why would you want to be here, there are opprotunities elsewhere that will better suit you.

We're assholes, perhaps this just isn't your cup of tea.

3.) Raid Conduct and Accountability

It occurs to me, that people aren't holding themselves accountable during raids. We're seeing glaring mistakes and people are making them again and again. We've never really punished people for doing things wrong, because frankly we had that casual mentality and we frankly needed people for it.

We will no longer be held hostage by this. If you fuck up, you get DKP deducted. If you REALLY fuck up, lots of DKP deducted. Don't get mad, fix it and earn the DKP back. Don't agree with it? Appeal it post raid. This will undoubtledly piss people off, but it will also get them focus. Doing stuff without consequence, people will continue to do it. Even in games there are consequences. If you suck in dodgeball, you're picked last or not at all. You want to play, you improve. The majority of this guild has enough brain to perform, and we're not asking for anything anybody is uncapable of doing, and we are very understanding.

Caliene will be the forefront of this, because we don't want officers being exempt from doing stupid shit. If I fuck up a raid, I expect to be punished just as much as an active raider. Obviously Pledges are expected to perform and might get hazed the most, but we are completly understanding to new people.

Read the fights, come prepared, and solidify your spot in The Brotherhood.

4.) New Loot Rules and DKP Possibilities

We are at all costs trying to avoid a loot council. We don't want to design this guild for the player who raids 7 days a week. But, we've been fighting for such a small majority of the raiders for so long. There are people who show up once in a blue moon or just remain on sitout because their gear or skill is so far behind, that when they get the call, they can yank a piece of gear that really would benefit a raider more.

That's not going to happen anymore. We're distinquishing our ranks even further. We will be asking raiders to show up when they can, and weigh out their skill vs attendance, and deciding if they should be considered a raider or a casual. And thus, most items will be defaulted to Raiders over casuals and casuals over pledges. We appreciate a casual coming to a raid when we need them, and don't want to completly allienate them from the guild. Good dialogue with officers is they key with this. We might make exceptions for trash loot and the like, and obviously if you're a casual who continually raids, you'll be considered a raider. But this will affect the lower percentage of raiders.

This will be written out more in full, but as of now it's looking like it will be a formula of officers opinion on your skill/dedication verses if you're showing up 2/4 days a week and keeping up with the fights/progression. We will put a team of officers similar to class officers in charge of deciding this.

Actives will still remain the almost "veteran" extreme performing members of the guild. They won't get loot priority (as of yet), but still get the most raid priority.

There is also a DKP discussion about decaying if you become extremly inactive without warning. DKP can be frozen if you've been active and need to go on vacation, or on a lesser decaying structure.

We're also discussing peoples ability to earn DKP on sitout. Right now, it will remain the same. But if you're a casual building DKP without attending raids, like actual inside the raid for whatever reason, theres no way you can build DKP on sitouts and then pick up a big piece of gear. We're coming up with a solution for this as well.

Tier 4 DKP will no longer be used at all. The tier 4 instances will be free rolled including Mag/Gruul's lair. Any extremly rare items such as shields, trinkets, and caster weapons might be loot counciled or left to a free roll through the eligible raiders. But this will be declared before the loot ever drops. Tier 4 dkp will remain up their as an archive of attendance. PUG Gruuls/Mags will probably resume in upcoming weeks, most likely late night or on weekends.

Non progression bosses will no longer be effected by the person with the most DKP. The most skilled/active raiders will get invite priority based on raid officer decision.

5.) Zul'Aman and Progression

We're starting to set realistic in-game goals. ZA starting out will be handpicked. Raiders will have priority the first few weeks, and we'll eventually try to spread out from 2 groups and officers will be staggering when we run these, allowing signups, etc. Until then, you as members of the guild are more then welcome to find opprotunities to run ZA. We ask that you try to stay in guild with running these, but if you need to go out of guild (either you starting one or going with another guild) try to contact an officer first and get their permission.

Zul'aman shall receive the same loot rules as Karazhan did. It's a 10 man, yes. With stellar gear, yes. But it should be free rolled, you get 1 epic per run, unless nobody wants, or the epic count resets. Off spec looting is still allowed, but use your fucking heads, and if all else fails, consult an officer.

But we encourage you guys to fill in those gear gaps. ZA is a perfect opprotunity to get Heroic rewards and fill in those gear gaps to help your chances getting a spot in Hyjal/BT.

Ahh... Hyjal/BT. That is our goal. We expect to be in there by 2008, if not in January. That's not an unreasonable goal. Vashj down in November, Kael in December. We're golden. 25 man raids are still important to us, the BT/Hyjal gear is still the best in game, and it's our goal to see Illidan dead before WotLK.

We are not competiting to the finish line. It's already been reached. We just want to finish and within reasonable time. We can compare ourselves to guilds around us, be remind yourselves you are not them. We are not them. Guilds will pass us, we will pass guilds. Keep your heads on straight. Don't talk excessive amounts of shit... and we should all remain humble. Cause you never know when shit happens, and you go back to square 1 and have to rebuild like we are now.

C.) Conclusions

We don't expect everyone to agree with the new terms, but are always willing to listen to suggestions. We're here to give everyone an opprotunity. We will remain friends with those who leave or retire from the game. Because we consider ourselves a gaming community. When new games come out, I expect us to experience them together. We want to experience this game together as well. So I encourage everyone to try this new era of The Brotherhood out. I wouldn't fully endorse this if I didn't feel it affected the majority of the guild for the better.

We're here to build better players. To challenge ourselves to be better players and to represent the name of <The Brotherhood> to not just be another scrub guild to fall into the other obscure guilds of Shattered Hand. We're here to make a fucking mark. Whatever it is we do... PVP, PVE, RP... we expect it to be the best it can be. The all around player is hard to develop, the guy who knows all the classes in and out. Not a one dimensional player.

When we give you the call for raiding, have your head in the game. If you're gonna be folding socks when you should be CCing a mob or healing, just tell the raid officer. Hopefully we can find a replacement, we don't expect 100% raid attendance, but we do expect 100% effectiveness when in the raid. 1 person can bring a raid down, and we know you don't want to be that one person.

We're here for the guild. The extreme personalities are here in <The Brotherhood>. The assholes are loyal to their guild, and deep down are nice guys. And if you fuck with another member of the guild, you fucking have their back. If your needed in a PVE or PVP environment, you respond.

I'm sure more ammending will be made to the guild. We will continue to evolve because thats the only way a guild survives. But the officers are here for the guild, I hope you accept this changes with an open mind, and if you feel you just wont fit as well in these doors, I emplure you to be honest. I'm the first person who will go out of my way to help you find your home in this game.

So I guess that's it...
I do ask 1 last thing, and that's if you've read this whole thing... please sign this thread. I just want to see who has read it, who is in this for the long run.

So, feel free to openly discuss, but I'm going to keep a tally of who has read it, and tell your friends to read this in game, because it affects everyone.

11-08-2007, 03:53 PM
Karrde is not a PVE'er

I think you mean PvP'er.

And, I read the whole thing.

11-08-2007, 04:00 PM

11-08-2007, 04:03 PM

11-08-2007, 04:34 PM

11-08-2007, 04:38 PM

11-08-2007, 04:53 PM
I'm in.

11-08-2007, 05:00 PM
So many spelling errors...but yeah, I left you guys once before, and I don't want to again.

The Brotherhood is my home.


11-08-2007, 05:00 PM

Long live The Brotherhood and the players it propagates.


11-08-2007, 05:03 PM

11-08-2007, 05:06 PM
Devlin will edit my spelling errors when he gets home.

11-08-2007, 05:09 PM

11-08-2007, 05:12 PM

11-08-2007, 05:14 PM

11-08-2007, 05:21 PM

11-08-2007, 05:28 PM

11-08-2007, 05:29 PM
testing my sig

11-08-2007, 05:32 PM
Read it.
Agreed with it.
Sounds sweet.
This guild is SO much better, and smarter, than WarCry <warcry> ever was.

11-08-2007, 05:32 PM
god that was boring

11-08-2007, 05:36 PM

11-08-2007, 06:02 PM

11-08-2007, 06:03 PM
/signed yo.

11-08-2007, 06:27 PM
I'm in like flynn.

11-08-2007, 06:49 PM
Read. Your logic is infallible. -Thermos

11-08-2007, 06:51 PM
Signed :)

11-08-2007, 07:32 PM
Read it

11-08-2007, 07:45 PM
That was sort lol


p.s well writen

11-08-2007, 08:10 PM

11-08-2007, 08:15 PM
what is this? the freaking Declaration of Independance?

ahh, what the heck...


11-08-2007, 08:38 PM

11-08-2007, 08:40 PM
Read it and sounds reasonable :P

11-08-2007, 09:07 PM


11-08-2007, 10:17 PM
I read that long thing. And if you even think of kicking me out due to lack of activity... well I'll just have to be okay with it won't I?!?!? -_-

11-08-2007, 10:43 PM
Read every word. I LOVE YOU GUYS! :) Signed.

11-09-2007, 12:02 AM

11-09-2007, 01:29 AM
i shall come play zg 2.0,


11-09-2007, 02:13 AM

11-09-2007, 02:15 AM
/signed and I am all over it like a fat kid on a cup cake boss

11-09-2007, 02:16 AM

11-09-2007, 02:17 AM
wait..wtf...the time it took me to read this 37 ppl already signed?!

hmm 39th!

11-09-2007, 06:59 AM
Kris is always late to the party. :p

11-09-2007, 08:36 AM

11-09-2007, 08:44 AM
Everyone keep reading and signing. Just wanted to point out these lies! I hate you for getting up my hopes and dreams with your terrible lies!

i shall come play zg 2.0,


11-09-2007, 12:08 PM

I sign pretty!

11-09-2007, 12:15 PM
it took me two days to finish reading but i persevere...

11-09-2007, 04:40 PM
The Spelling errors indicate the points in which Brian developed Carpal tunnel from all the previous walls of text coming back to haunt him. I know I am one of the less active due to this damn thing called Real Life. But a read completely and wholeheartedly agree. Hope to keep learning and experiencing with the Brotherhood!!



11-09-2007, 05:50 PM

11-09-2007, 09:07 PM

11-09-2007, 09:14 PM
I read it. I am sure i fall into the casual spot if not even farther down lately. But i just got the good news today that my new job has a different schedule. I now work from 6am-2pm pst. So yes that means i am now on an east coast schedule. So, I already told meghan that i aimed for this spot so that i could FINALLY try to get back into raiding. If only i had gotten this kind of schedule a while ago before falling so far behind in guild.

Cya in-game.

11-10-2007, 10:50 AM
Well, luckily for those who have fallen behind in terms of gear, 2.3 offers FANTASTIC opportunities to close the gap. All you have to do is run ZA and kara, and youre almost back on par with the tier 5ers. Between ZA loot, and new heroic badge gear, you'll be in good shape, and up to snuff in just a couple weeks.

So take heart people! Don't be afraid that you wont have a spot just because you're a few steps back on gear. Little bit of work, youre right back in the thick of it.

11-11-2007, 12:08 AM

11-11-2007, 01:42 AM

11-11-2007, 06:08 AM
Everyone keep reading and signing. Just wanted to point out these lies! I hate you for getting up my hopes and dreams with your terrible lies!

oh ill be there. :)

11-11-2007, 09:23 AM
because my secretary made me

11-11-2007, 12:01 PM

11-11-2007, 03:21 PM

11-11-2007, 06:09 PM

11-11-2007, 09:29 PM
I'm here for moral support!

11-11-2007, 09:29 PM
I do believe I will put my John Hancock on this one.

11-12-2007, 04:13 PM
I haven't read that much in a long time. Thanks for making me use my brain :)


11-12-2007, 08:39 PM
goddammit, I was on leave for a week and I miss the most important thread since I joined. :)

SIGNED, and it sounds good to me. thank god I'm back.

11-12-2007, 11:47 PM
count me in

11-13-2007, 05:57 AM

11-13-2007, 08:53 AM
I've read this post like 3 times now, I guess I should have signed this long ago ~


11-14-2007, 01:17 AM
aye Lad

11-14-2007, 07:29 PM
Read and signed.

B, I will prolly send you a PM within the next few days.

02-09-2008, 07:43 PM
about 3 months late but i have a good reason for it!
i hope ive made a big enough impact here to show that i can hold my own.
and as soon as i get done with school and am stationed somewhere, and get my damn free time back ill be back full time. for now i have my laptop,and wireless internet (which isnt that great but works). ill be around a bit more, time willing, mostly on weekends. but hopefully i can get back into raiding soon, and still have a home here. "EVERYONE TO FULL"

02-10-2008, 10:40 AM
I now believe I can truly sign this. Because I'm back from the dead, and ready to level all over again to gank horde and bitch and moan like I always do.

Signed and endorsed by Chris.